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Visit Smiling Jack's column >>

SMILING JACK

A talkative pumpkin, apparently.
Articles Posted: 44  Links Seeded: 232
Member Since: 9/2007  Last Seen: 10/29/2010

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The "Father of Reagonomics" thinks Bush is moving toward a police state

Seeded on Tue Dec 4, 2007 2:51 AM EST
Read ArticleArticle Source: liveleak.com
politics, bush, rights, paul-craig-roberts
Seeded by Smiling Jack
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Paul Craig Roberts, a Republican who worked in the Reagan administration, is predicting a 9-11 type of attack before the 2008 elections. If that occurs, Bush can declare martial law and begin arresting those who disagree with his foreign policy (based on Executive Orders recently issued by the Bush Administration that grant the president these powers and more.) Wild stuff.

Paul Craig Roberts is an economist and a nationally syndicated columnist for Creators Syndicate. He served as an Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan Administration earning fame as the "Father of Reaganomics".
He is a former editor and columnist for the Wall Street Journal, Business Week, and Scripps Howard News Service. He is a graduate of the Georgia Institute of Technology and he holds a Ph.D. from the University of Virginia. He was a post-graduate at the University of California, Berkeley, and Oxford University where he was a member of Merton College.

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  • Smiling Jack's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: America's Need For Change, Anti-War, Impeachment, Left of Center, RightsVine
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  • Public Discussion (56)
Smiling Jack

I think he exaggerates the danger, but he isn't exaggerating the effect of the law and how totally our rights have been subverted.

  • 6 votes
Reply#1 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 2:52 AM EST
winsomecowboy

I think that if he's not exaggerating the effect of the law and how totally our rights have been subverted then he's not exaggerating the danger.

I don't think many people realise just how far it's gome.

  • 25 votes
#1.1 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 2:57 AM EST
Smiling Jack

The main reason I think there may be some exagerration, is that the administration has done something very devious in the past and may continue to do it here.

A number of unconstitutional laws have gone through which subvert due process. If they were used fully and frequently, people would become more aware of them and the Supreme Court would likely strike them down. So instead of doing that, they use their heightened powers to fish around in people's business, but don't actually go for arrests based on that information.

They use their powers to find out everyone's secrets and then come at them some other way. So very little of this stuff becomes evident in the public eye.

It's a difficult thing to describe for several reasons, but I'm currently researching it. It will likely take me a couple weeks to finish documenting and sourcing it.

But to come to the point, I don't think he's going to use his powers to the fullest, I think he's going to sit back and damage our constitution even further. He won't do anything more drastic then he already has, but what he's done so far is already enough.

Is it possible we could be a true police state at war with Iran next year? Sure is. There are days I wish he really would start rounding up people, just so everybody would wake up and see just how much power he's usurped. He's attacking the very foundations of our country, and nobody cares.

  • 6 votes
#1.2 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 4:02 AM EST
StupidLoon

There are days I wish he really would start rounding up people, just so everybody would wake up and see just how much power he's usurped.

So, you wish for a police state, to prove that a police state is possible? From what you say here, I'm inclined to believe you don't care about the American people at all, only about proving how evil Bush is, at whatever expense of the American people. Interesting loop.

  • 3 votes
#1.3 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 6:49 AM EST
sleeent

WOW...a new standard for 'dilusional' is being set in these discussions. But, to your point, our freedoms have been significantly restricted during the Bush administration...I mean there's all the times the local police have brought me in for...well--maybe that hasn't happened; but there the time my door got busted in...but that was a 100 mph wind gust; and that doesn't count all the wire taps in my home...you know you can just 'sense' it.

Oh for the good old days when I could just own a home, have a job, enjoy my family, get an education, celebrate what religion I want to (other than christianity), travel across state boarders without special gov't permission, not have armed militia on every street corner...not to mention all the Liberal drivel that has been banished.

One word: BOO! Hah...scared ya didn't I?

  • 1 vote
#1.4 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 10:15 AM EST
MCLiepshutz

I just love that " It can't happen to me" attitude . But than thats what you get when you really don't know the constitution.

  • 7 votes
#1.5 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 11:35 AM EST
biggerthebetter

Sleeent, I find this ironic:

"WOW...a new standard for 'dilusional' is being set in these discussions"

and then you go on to state that you can't practice Christianity.

Did you INTEND to make us laugh?

  • 1 vote
#1.6 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 12:30 PM EST
Smiling Jack

So, you wish for a police state, to prove that a police state is possible? From what you say here, I'm inclined to believe you don't care about the American people at all, only about proving how evil Bush is, at whatever expense of the American people. Interesting loop.

I was trying to be funny actually, sorry you didn't get it.

Obviously I don't want people rounded up. What I prefer more then anything else is that the basic rights we've always had be enforced.

  • 1 vote
#1.7 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 1:12 PM EST
Pamela Drew

I don't think many people realize just how far it's gone.

I agree with you winsome, too many people don't look with skepticism but instead have faith that since they haven't seen anything first hand that suggests herding US shoppers into detention facilities, things are fine.

  • 11 votes
#1.8 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 3:42 PM EST
StupidLoon

Pamela,

What then, is a better form of persuasion then first hand witness? How do you propose convincing everyone of "how far it's gone" when skepticism in media goes way beyond skepticism of our government? Will America suddenly trust media? Never again methinks. Therefore, with no other outlet for reliable information on what is really going on and how far it is (which, apparently, no one has seen first hand), people will simply have faith. Can you blame people for being skeptical of something they don't see?

    #1.9 - Wed Dec 5, 2007 5:17 AM EST
    sleeent

    MC...I guess those 4 years of studying the Constitutional Law at Cal (2 under tutelage of Sandy Muir...) have gone to waste...I knew I should have become a Lawyer.

    And Bigger...it was actually intended to be tongue-in-cheek...but far be it for me or anyone else to try to make this group laugh. That would be TRULY dilusional.

      #1.10 - Wed Dec 5, 2007 7:14 PM EST
      Pamela Drew

      StupidLoon...Will America suddenly trust media? Never again methinks. Therefore, with no other outlet for reliable information on what is really going on and how far it is

      I think that we will see a shift to more local everything. Neighbors and friends either traditional or like cyber communities where we go back to names instead of groups who say this that or the other, AEI says and CDC says and the White House says, give us people and we will get to the root of the crimes. I think that push for accountability in government will continue to develop get transparency tools, from the sheer numbers of people joining the ranks who want to know where their money went and groups helping to put it online.

      • 3 votes
      #1.11 - Thu Dec 6, 2007 2:35 AM EST
      Reply
      Monica D.

      Americans think their danger is terrorists, but terrorists cannot take away habeas corpus, the Bill of Rights, the Constitution...

      This is right on. I wish these Republican's protests would get more press. Clipping and sending to non-viners (Republican friends), SJ. Thanks for the seed.

      • 14 votes
      Reply#2 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 4:50 AM EST
      Smiling Jack

      Thanks for commenting. He isn't the first Republican to note how many of our rights are being stripped from us, but he's a fairly prominent one.

      • 8 votes
      #2.1 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 5:07 AM EST
      Reply
      Wizeguy

      Bush can declare martial law and begin arresting those who disagree with his foreign policy

      I don't see this happening but if it doe's I can only hope the outrage results in his arrest.

      • 1 vote
      Reply#3 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 5:32 AM EST
      winsomecowboy

      Please stop thinking that rationality on the publics part play's any part in this. 9/11 freaked America out and it went to war in two countries, neither of those two countries provided the hijackers, [that would be Saudi Arabia]

      big dirty bomb goes off in a major American city next year or an outbreak of anthrax happens.

      Instant panic, instant shock. The govt will get to do what it damn well wants and you [I mean 'you' collectively, nothing personal] might not agree now but when it comes, if it comes, you will be grateful for the leadership to salve your fear irrespective of what that leadership contains just as long as it hurts someone else and makes them pay for your discomfort.

      • 6 votes
      #3.1 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 2:10 PM EST
      rob from oakland, ca.Deleted
      winsomecowboy

      rob

      again with the comic training wheels.

      salve 1 (sv, säv)
      n.
      1. An analgesic or medicinal ointment.
      2. Something that soothes or heals; a balm.
      3. Flattery or commendation.
      tr.v. salved, salv·ing, salves
      1. To soothe or heal with or as if with salve.
      2. To ease the distress or agitation of; assuage: salved my conscience by apologizing.

      so no saddle soap softens leather which is dead and cannot be soothed, but you're close.

      It's difficult for a budding comedian such as yourself to face the fact that 'close to funny' is the antithesis of 'funny'

      and the segue into Speaking of Economists is, because it's untethered is again a comic convention best left til later. To have arbitrariness be funny requires trust on the part of the audience and that must be created rather than simply presumed.

      you need to visit a couple of open mike nights somewhere, you learn much faster.

      Still I think with effort you have potential. Not least of your assets is your personality, even though crippled by conservatism and comic overconfidence, is still quite likeable.

      Also i always thought Tonto spent his entire relationship trying to keep a straight face. The lone ranger was like the head prefect of the prairie.

      • 2 votes
      #3.3 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 2:59 PM EST
      rob from oakland, ca.Deleted
      Reply
      Adam Becker

      I wish there were a second party present in Washington that would do something about it. Unfortunately, all we have is the GOP's partner in crime, the Democratic Party.

      • 7 votes
      Reply#4 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 5:39 AM EST
      masterblaster

      Well in Britain The Labour Party has over the past ten years introduced virtually all the laws the Nazis enacted.
      Now they've started expelling members of a perfectly legal political party from their jobs!
      So we know what is maybe coming for you unless you fight back!

      • 2 votes
      Reply#5 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 8:53 AM EST
      Partisan Hack

      New Labour, please. Blair, like Clinton, was packaged as a liberal but was glad to help dismantle liberal policies.

      • 3 votes
      #5.1 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 9:31 AM EST
      StupidLoon

      Well in Britain The Labour Party has over the past ten years introduced virtually all the laws the Nazis enacted.

      So if the Nazis did it, it's bad? Automatically? Just like that?

      Honest question looking for an honest response (sick of being flamed by people who imagine me hating)

      • 3 votes
      #5.2 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 2:51 PM EST
      masterblaster

      Well what great humanitarian projects did the Nazis introduce us to?

        #5.3 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 6:37 PM EST
        Mars313

        gun registration

        • 2 votes
        #5.4 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 6:53 PM EST
        Adam Becker

        It's not so much that they introduced great humanitarianism as it is that they had a lot of laws that were ... normal. For example, burglary was illegal in Nazi Germany. So was murder. You can argue that the way the laws were enforced was unfair, and you'd be right, but you are the one who simply said enacting laws the Nazis enacted was automatically wrong.

        So the point is, maybe you should provide some specific examples of what the party has done that you disagree with rather than making this vague generalization.

        • 4 votes
        #5.5 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 6:55 PM EST
        masterblaster

        As I said members of the BNP are being expelled from their jobs by various trade unions affiliated to New Labour, and this has now been declared legal by the EU.
        These people are being denied the "right to work" simply because of their political affiliations, not because of anything they have done.
        And note: the BNP is a legal political party which means that people are legally entitled to vote for it or to belong to it.
        In Nazi Germany the Jews were also expelled from their jobs.
        And by the way to declare that burglary and murder were illegal under the Nazis is also misleading.
        They were illegal long before the Nazis came into power, indeed it was the Nazis who legalised the murder of over six million Jews.

        • 1 vote
        #5.6 - Thu Dec 6, 2007 8:12 AM EST
        Reply
        More Than Happy

        When we are convinced it can't happen, that's when we are most vulnerable to it.

        • 6 votes
        Reply#6 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 10:21 AM EST
        MCLiepshutz

        I couldn't have said it better myself. Vigilance is in very short supply.

        • 4 votes
        #6.1 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 11:37 AM EST
        More Than Happy

        Seven years of the Bush Administration has taught me that the Second Amendment isn't just a hunting licence.

        • 4 votes
        #6.2 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 11:39 AM EST
        rob from oakland, ca.Deleted
        Reply
        sleeent

        Thanks Happy...I'll add that to chapter 13 of book I'm writing titled "Meaningless Quips: Words that people use when they have no evidence". Just finished chapter 12 "If the Glove don't Fit..."

          Reply#7 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 10:36 AM EST
          More Than Happy

          No evidence? It's right under our noses - the Bush Administration has the means and motive, all they need is another opportunity like 9/11.

          • 3 votes
          #7.1 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 10:39 AM EST
          MCLiepshutz

          Denial is more than a river in Egypt. Add that to the meaningless quip list.

          • 3 votes
          #7.2 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 11:38 AM EST
          winsomecowboy

          it's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it. George Carlin

          • 4 votes
          #7.3 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 2:12 PM EST
          sleeent

          Man....you guys are on a roll. And I thought there was a Writers' Strike!

            #7.4 - Wed Dec 5, 2007 7:09 PM EST
            Reply
            The Good American

            Everyone need to read THE END OF AMERICA, by Naomi Wolf.

            • 1 vote
            Reply#8 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 1:42 PM EST
            rob from oakland, ca.Deleted
            Reply
            fgzr

            This is extremely exaggerated. I really don't think that it is in the best interest of the Republicans to condone a police state. Instead, isolating the party from the actions of the current president, is the best way to ensure they are competitive in 2008. McCain = bad candidate, Paul = good candidate.

            Any action as extreme as the ones talked about in that video clip is really highlighting the actions of Bush acting outside of his party.

            Not to be offensive to anyone, but it's the constitution itself that has allowed for one man to have such power over everything. The flaw isn't in the Republicans, and it's not in Bush, it' in the underlying laws and constitution itself that puts one man as head of state and head of government, and powerful enough to take extreme authoritarian measures.

            The idea of a police state in 2008 is only possible for as long as the American people are willing to tolerate illegitimate exercise of presidential power. If a police state emerges, it's really the fault of the American people for not taking the appropriate measures to impeach Bush.

            I think it comes down to a question of patriotism. Is patriotism being patriotic to the president? or to the state?

            • 1 vote
            Reply#9 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 1:49 PM EST
            Mars313

            I think it comes down to a question of patriotism. Is patriotism being patriotic to the president? or to the state?

            If you can't figure out the answer to this, damn good, question.... know that you are not a patriot, you do not support your troops, and this does not please Jesus.

            • 3 votes
            #9.1 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 2:06 PM EST
            winsomecowboy

            it's got nothing to do with republicans and democrats, that's a punch and judy show.

            • 3 votes
            #9.2 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 2:20 PM EST
            rob from oakland, ca.Deleted
            winsomecowboy

            Rob, it saddens me to see someone such as yourself still believing in fairy tales.

            I don't care what arms you may have tucked in your basement, unless you have a stinger or equal then i could evaporate you and your dwelling with whatever I chose to arm the helicopter with that day. You wouldn't be a 'freedom fighter' either. as a member of the armed forces I would look at you as a terrorist and gain satisfaction in your destruction.

            This whole, 'Patriot Americans' not allowing the country to be usurped is just so much sedative.

            Why don't you come right out with it. "don't worry, be happy."

            • 1 vote
            #9.4 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 3:15 PM EST
            rob from oakland, ca.Deleted
            winsomecowboy

            Struck a nerve obviously.

            Did the armed forces react in any shape or form after the president invented a new justification for it's use called pre-emptive defence?
            Has the armed forces not been pruned quite dramatically of late in it's higher levels of anyone who's opinions clash with the present admin's.
            Is there now more or less a culture of unthinking obedience in the armed forces?
            Please...save your white horse galloping over the brow to the rescue to the dusty halls of your own imaginary comfort zone.
            Your pride and reality are in fact two different things, you do know that don't you?

            As for your huffing and puffing about your quite deluded idea that you and your comrades in arms are the armed forces.

            I put myelf in the position of those in the armed forces who will destroy your romantic little civil war with bigger guns than you have. You can read that as impersonating a member of the forces if it gives you the juice you need.

            The armed forces have done nothing, zilch, nada to defend the constitution over the last 2 terms and the constitution has suffered for it.
            The armed forces you are so proud of seem to be a bit bogged down in foriegn wars to focus on defending the constitution at present. How absolutely coincidentally convienient!
            "don't worry, be happy." "couldn't happen here"

            I wonder why Blackwater were used in Katrina far more dramatically than the guard?

            You stick with your marshall romances and your stabs at comedy. I doubt we'll agree on much.

            • 5 votes
            #9.6 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 3:53 PM EST
            Mars313

            The armed forces have done nothing, zilch, nada to defend the constitution over the last 2 terms and the constitution has suffered for it.

            makes me wonder what side they are on.

            • 1 vote
            #9.7 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 4:01 PM EST
            rob from oakland, ca.Deleted
            winsomecowboy

            I'm under the assumption you are not at present a member of the armed forces,.
            But you are acting as if you at present are"if you think I'm going to be any part of any fascist overthrow

            I can take it then that you are presently an active member of the armed forces reassuring us that the constitution is under your vigorous protection?

            We'll the great news is that you'll defend that constitution in part for the sake of people like me who won't automatically trust you to.
            I apologise for presuming you ex military and insist as you're active, that you apply yourself to your duties rather than swan about on the internet reassuring people as to how hard you're working.
            I see straight through you.

            good evening.

            • 1 vote
            #9.9 - Wed Dec 5, 2007 1:55 AM EST
            Reply
            Mars313

            Those who think this can't happen will be the first to bow down to The Power when it does happen. Like I've said many times before, they are Good Germans and they will gladly help destroy our Nation either through ignorance or plain servitude. Wake up Sheep, your Shepard is calling!

            • 3 votes
            Reply#10 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 2:03 PM EST
            enthusiastic

            Haven't a lot of people been calling this? Don't people understand that we just might end up refugees if we don't do something?

              Reply#11 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 3:29 PM EST
              Mars313

              Mexico, here I come!!!

                #11.1 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 3:36 PM EST
                rob from oakland, ca.Deleted
                Reply
                franglais001

                President Bush signed an executive order which gives him control over federal, state, and LOCAL agencies in the event of a "national emergency"...leaving the definition of national emergency completely subject to situational interpretation. He signed the MILITARY COMMISSIONS ACT which allows him to declare ANYONE, citizen or non-citizen, an enemy combatant, someone who lacks the basic right of being held on a charge and receiving a fair trial in relation to that charge. This sounds like a huge power grab on the part of the executive branch, and it only needs a 9/11 style emergency to take complete control of our local governments and declare dissenters to be enemy combatants through the previously mentioned executive order and act. The only way to stop such an event is to be informed and not let fear undermine our ability to think rationally. Without fear, another 9/11 style attack has no power over us.

                • 2 votes
                Reply#12 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 5:32 PM EST
                Mars313

                But Fear is our only god!

                • 2 votes
                #12.1 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 5:42 PM EST
                rob from oakland, ca.Deleted
                Reply
                TBone

                This is coming up way to often for comfort. Like the Old Jewish man that sleeps with his suitcase packed because he knows it can happen again. People, it can happen again.

                • 2 votes
                Reply#13 - Tue Dec 4, 2007 7:07 PM EST
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